Bob Weber and Mary Delorey
Larry's River, Nova Scotia, CANADA
If you've ever developed your own film and photos, you know that the darkroom is an integral part of making the photo. The camera is just one piece of the puzzle. Photoshop is the darkroom in the context of the digital image.
Scott makes a valid point regarding film versus digital imaging. Plenty of enhancement occured in the darkroom with filters, frames, retouching negs, etc. It was a secondary process which is absent from digital. I shot photojournalistic work in the film era. The film was digitized for production. Acceptable corrections were sizing, cropping, removal of scratches/dust, and appropriate sharpening (unsharp masking--which is a film technique and not unique to Photoshop, who borrowed the term). Anything else was "manipulation." I don't think it matters if a shot is posted here under the journalism standards. Negating them seems somewhat arbitrary in my opinion.
All that said, most of what I have submitted has been untouched, but I have submitted a couple cropped and resized shots to the prior threads.
The progression from film-era technique/thinking to digital is not linear.
Some good points pro and con have been made in this thread.
Last edited by bricciphoto; 12-14-2007 at 08:22 PM.
Rides & Drives: '07 BMW F800ST Low, '07 Porsche Cayman, '06 VW Jetta TDI & '05 BMW R1200ST
... and not 24 hours after agreeing upon their name, the EyeRiders encountered their first squabble with semantic technicalities.
Stay tuned for more...
I too agree on the cropping issue as I too often "crop" while composing for the self-same reasons stated. However the removal of scratches etc would seem to me to fall under a gray area and I am not sure translates to digital, esp. since those that use a P&S should never have to deal with dust on the sensor, for the rest of us learn to clean it, it is really not very difficult to do. So again I would go with allowing cropping and resizing and leave the rest alone. That said I will go with whatever ruling is made and continue to enjoy participation in the assignments.
I would suggest that rules be set by Tom as this was/is after all Tom's idea.
And should a bit of a finger show up in the edge of a frame assume it was NOT that kind of finger motion!
Either way lets have a ruling so we can get back to business before we run into 20 pages and still NO PHOTOS or we may send Tom screaming from the thread never to return. (with popcorn in hand)
I vote keep it "old school" as if you were using a totally manual camera; like my Olympus OM-1 that I still use frequently or like the photos taken by Ansel Adams. If the focal length of the lens/digital camera is not sufficient to frame the way you want then move to a location so you can frame the shot you want. If the light is not right, then learn to use fill flash or no flash; or maybe wait for the sun or a cloud to get in the right position. Fine photography, (for me anyway), is an art of seeing and capturing an image in the instant you snap the shutter. Granted some of Adam's images went from so-so to prize winning in the dark room but most of his work was un-altered in the dark room. For me, striving to emulate one of the greats like Adams is the ultimate challenge. I see this thread / assignment as a challenge to capture the image you (and the camera) see without alteration in the computer. just my $0.02 worth.
Saturday: Periods of snow, mainly after noon. High near 29. East wind between 11 and 15 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.
Saturday Night: Periods of snow. Low around 25. Blustery, with a northeast wind between 15 and 23 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 7 inches possible.
After I run the snowblower on Sunday I should have a good chance of getting that "bike in the snow" shot.
Ansel Adams said, ‘«£The negative is the score, the print the performance.‘«ō
My favorite photography instructor would grade us not only on our prints but also the processed film and contact sheets of our B&W or color negatives. The rational was to learn how to make consistently good exposures and compositions, creating a more efficient and productive darkroom and hopefully better photographers. Other reasons for examining our contact sheets were to see just how efficiently we used our film, meaning, shooting to fill the frame so we would need as little cropping as possible and to see how many exposures we used to get ‘«£the‘«ō shot.
What I‘«÷m saying is SNC 1923 has set up a great template for learning the most basic, often difficult, but essential step in creating a photographic image, that is to look at and constructively critique photos before any manipulations occur. Ansel Adams was a master of negative processing and print manipulation, but it all started with ‘«£the score.‘«ō
It‘«÷s really difficult to not crop or ‘«£tweak‘«ō a photo before posting, but it is a terrific learning experience. Perhaps we could consider leaving the original guidelines in place, that is, post only one photo with no alteration (other than sizing for the forum.) And then those that want to could take there one image and re-submit a processed, altered, posterized, dodged, burned, cropped, split toned or just tweaked image for a second critique. Discussion of image alterations and techniques could follow the second submission. The second submissions could be on the same thread the following week or on a different thread. Just my two cents worth‘«™.
Darkroom manipulation and Photoshop alterations have a permanent place in photography, I‘«÷m a big fan of both and use Photoshop almost every day, but to create a really good photo it‘«÷s always easier to start with a really good image. I think one of the goals of the thread was to level the playing field for those without Photoshop to be able to play with those that have image processing abilities. I like that premise, it keeps things simple and keeps more players in the game. Again, just my 2 cents worth.
I think that there is a fine line between Computer Correction and Computer Alterations. The key here is to avoid Computer Alterations and Mutations. I have some photos that I have done cropping and straightening on, as well as red eye correction. To me that seems in the spirit of it.
Here is an example of why I have that feeling. I currently shoot with a P&S camera with a 10Megapixel sensor. I turn off the digital zoom so at times I cannot zoom in as much as I want. There are times I want to crop out some of the picture but I know that I do not the ability to do it on the camera. An example is this photo.
I knew I was going to need to crop it to remove some of the building structure. I did not have a way to do it there while taking the shot. So I cropped it in Photoshop. To me that is fair.
I also know that at times what appears straight in the view finder or display is not straight on the bigger display of a computer. Especially if you are like me with an astigmatism.
However what would be improper Computer Manipulation would be a photo of a Christmas Tree that was taken and then a separate photo of a Motorcycle and then compositing the two together.
So if you feel you must Computer Correct, please post a link to the original and be ready to explain what you did to it and why.
Any questions, just ask.
Remember the goal of this thread and process is to get better at the process of photography and not digital manipulation. Also try to have fun.
I am looking forward to seeing the photos and hopefully having some cool things to pick from for next year's Holiday Card.
It isn't what you ride, it is if you ride
I'd like to chime in on the cropping issue. I used to shoot with TLR (Twin Lens Reflex) cameras because I love the square format for framing. Unfortunately, they all use medium format film (120 or 220) that is now pretty expensive to process. I don't have room for a darkroom so I had to get my film processed in a lab.
Anyway, I switched to digital for the economy of it. But guess what. There are very few square format digital cameras. You can get digital backs for Rolleis and Hasselblads, but they are big dollar items. So I use "normal" digital cameras with rectangular sensors. But when I compose the shot I do it for a square and crop to that square on the computer. I don't consider this a crop per se, as it is what I intended the moment I pressed the shutter. Now, if I make that square even 1 pixel shorter than the height of the frame, then yes, that is a crop that alters my original framing.
Now I realize that a square picture is not going to be very good for a Christmas card, so I guess I won't start my active participation this week. But for future reference I'd like to know if correcting the format to what I intended (ie: a square), is cropping.