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Thread: Sargent Heated seat inoperable, weird voltages.

  1. #1
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    Sargent Heated seat inoperable, weird voltages.

    While going after another problem (http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread....his-gonna-cost) I decided to look at another problem. Shortly after I bought my 2011 R1200RT I replaced the stock heated seats with Sargent heated seats. The driver's seat heater worked well up until this year. While the bike was on the lift and the seat was off looking at the shock, I decided to test the voltages going to the seats. The passenger seat appears to check out OK with connected voltages to the appropriate wires at 13.05 volts (engine idling) and resistances of 0.3 ohms through the seat. The drivers seat when connect showed unknown oscillating voltages at a rate of about 2/sec. (I have a Fluke digital meter) and infinity ohms through the seat.

    1st question: How does one fix these seats? Remove dozens of staples first, right? Yuk!

    2nd question: Could the crazy oscillating voltages have burned out the heating elements? If so, the heating elements would simply fail again after they are repaired, right? There should be consistent voltage at the plug, right? (like the passenger seat)

  2. #2
    Registered User temesvar's Avatar
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    I just changed the seat myself, and, of course, the heating doesn't work.
    First of all, had to replace the connectors to match. Wiring color is not same
    as the Sargent's. Wonder is reversing polarity would make a difference? And
    why are 4 wires to the passenger seat and only 2 to the rider's seat? The
    Sargent seat i bought, used, has only rider side heated, if it works.
    I never asked if the heating was working, and am not sure how to check that out.
    Connect directly to a 12 V source? Am not helping you here at all, but hope we both
    will get some advise from people that are familiar with this sort of problems.

  3. #3
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    The Sargent seat has actually worked well for the last 4 years. It is just this winter that it has not been lighting up.

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    Registered User temesvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banzaibob View Post
    The Sargent seat has actually worked well for the last 4 years. It is just this winter that it has not been lighting up.
    Did you have it connected to the bike's controller, or you have the Sargent controller?

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    It is connected to the bike's controller.

  6. #6
    Registered User temesvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banzaibob View Post
    It is connected to the bike's controller.
    Thanks! Good to know that works. It should, but never know.Just like with reversed polarity.
    How did you deal with the connectors, since Sargent connectors are different from factory?
    I have a set of aftermarket connectors that work fine with other gadgets I have here. May be
    the problem with that. Will try hot-wiring and see what happens...

  7. #7
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by banzaibob View Post
    While going after another problem (http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread....his-gonna-cost) I decided to look at another problem. Shortly after I bought my 2011 R1200RT I replaced the stock heated seats with Sargent heated seats. The driver's seat heater worked well up until this year. While the bike was on the lift and the seat was off looking at the shock, I decided to test the voltages going to the seats. The passenger seat appears to check out OK with connected voltages to the appropriate wires at 13.05 volts (engine idling) and resistances of 0.3 ohms through the seat. The drivers seat when connect showed unknown oscillating voltages at a rate of about 2/sec. (I have a Fluke digital meter) and infinity ohms through the seat.

    1st question: How does one fix these seats? Remove dozens of staples first, right? Yuk!

    2nd question: Could the crazy oscillating voltages have burned out the heating elements? If so, the heating elements would simply fail again after they are repaired, right? There should be consistent voltage at the plug, right? (like the passenger seat)
    infinity ohms means the seat has an open circuit. A wire may have broken due to vibration or rubbing.

    The open circuit provides no load to the source of voltage and current. I am not surprised it oscillates.

    If you can locate and repair the broken wire, you should be back in business.

    Let us know te result.
    Ed
    2015 R1200RT; 2011 R1200RT RIP; 2000 Triumph 900 (sold)
    http://triumphantsblog.blogspot.ca/

  8. #8
    Registered User temesvar's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=banzaibob;The passenger seat appears to check out OK with connected voltages to the appropriate wires at 13.05 volts (engine idling) and resistances of 0.3 ohms through the seat. The drivers seat when connect showed unknown oscillating voltages at a rate of about 2/sec. (I have a Fluke digital meter) and infinity ohms through the seat.

    1st question: How does one fix these seats? Remove dozens of staples first, right? Yuk!

    2nd question: Could the crazy oscillating voltages have burned out the heating elements? If so, the heating elements would simply fail again after they are repaired, right? There should be consistent voltage at the plug, right? (like the passenger seat)[/QUOTE]

    I contacted Sargent, and they have responded right away:


    It is very hard to diagnose the issue without knowing what type of voltage your oem heat controller is putting out. I have see instances where our heat works with the oem controller but it takes longer to heat up. If you can hook an ohm meter to both pins on the seat you should read about 8.5 ohms resistance. If not the heater may have failed."



    Regards



    cid:image001.gif@01CB79CE.FAC24290

    Dane Higgins

    Sales/Customer Service


    dane@sargentcycle.com


    So, i don't see how even your passenger seat works at o.3 ohms...

  9. #9
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    The standard rider's seat has a resistance of about 3 ohms. Measured on 2 bikes.

    At 14.2v from the alternator, this gives about 42 Watts of heat. Takes a while to heat.
    Ed
    2015 R1200RT; 2011 R1200RT RIP; 2000 Triumph 900 (sold)
    http://triumphantsblog.blogspot.ca/

  10. #10
    Registered User temesvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Triumphant View Post
    The standard rider's seat has a resistance of about 3 ohms. Measured on 2 bikes.

    At 14.2v from the alternator, this gives about 42 Watts of heat. Takes a while to heat.

    Have just checked the OEM seat at 9.7 ohms, and the
    Sargent seat at 7 ohms.
    Am not electrician, just happens to have a Fluke and these are
    the results. These measurements are news to me, a whole
    different language, but is just what i get here.

  11. #11
    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by temesvar View Post
    Have just checked the OEM seat at 9.7 ohms, and the
    Sargent seat at 7 ohms.
    Am not electrician, just happens to have a Fluke and these are
    the results. These measurements are news to me, a whole
    different language, but is just what i get here.
    The two seats were measured by two persons, one in Mississauga (2015 RT, low seat) and the other in Duncan, BC (2014 RT, standard seat). I was asked if my seat took a long time to heat, and it did take about 35 minutes to heat to a point I wanted to turn it down. His seat took the same time. 42 Watts is not that much of a heater...

    Which bike & OEM seat did you measure? Does your Fluke require you to do any sort of zeroing the display by holding the probes together before measuring? (likely not, but I had to ask) 9.7 ohms would be 138 watts, which should heat quickly, and give a toasty feeling.
    Ed
    2015 R1200RT; 2011 R1200RT RIP; 2000 Triumph 900 (sold)
    http://triumphantsblog.blogspot.ca/

  12. #12
    Registered User temesvar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMW Triumphant View Post
    Which bike & OEM seat did you measure? Does your Fluke require you to do any sort of zeroing the display by holding the probes together before measuring? (likely not, but I had to ask) 9.7 ohms would be 138 watts, which should heat quickly, and give a toasty feeling.
    The Fluke is a 87 True RMS Multimeter. It was a gift, and don't know much about it.
    But i don't think zeroing is required. The bike is a 2008 RT and the seat would be warm
    to a feeling in about 5 min. Only used it once, to check it out, and at max. setting, is
    to hot for comfort after 10 min. or so! The OEM seat, even at low setting, is to high for
    my comfort, and 30" inseam. So i bought this low Sargent seat with heater. It required a
    plug to fit, so i changed them both with a plug i had. Maybe didn't do the connection
    right. I don't think polarity should mater, and looks like it should work. Will look into it as
    soon as i can.

  13. #13
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    A low resistance reading of any kind would probably be consistent with a heating element. With infinity ohms between the two leads it is a fair assumption that element or wiring is broken. Sargent seats are not a small company per se. I wonder if they can service this seat? Since I've had it for years it is not under warranty. Turn around time is an issue....Daytona is coming up.

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