Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: Over heating problem with 2011 R1200RT

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bartlesville, OK
    Posts
    5

    Over heating problem with 2011 R1200RT

    I had to jump my battery to get the RT started so I let it run a while to charge. I went in to eat supper and when I went back out it was really hot, temp guage was up and the red light was on. It was running fine, I turned it off and looked down and noticed the rubber cover from the cylinder head was on the ground and the sensor? was poking out. The next day after work I pushed the sensor back in and put the rubber cover back on. It started fine and ran good but after a minute it started leaking oil on the pipes on the left side.
    Could this be just a gasket fix or could the head be warped? and is that a sensor that popped out? Yes I was stupid to let it idle that long.

  2. #2
    Registered User mneblett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    2,080
    Quote Originally Posted by sportyford View Post
    I had to jump my battery to get the RT started so I let it run a while to charge. I went in to eat supper and when I went back out it was really hot, temp guage was up and the red light was on. It was running fine, I turned it off and looked down and noticed the rubber cover from the cylinder head was on the ground and the sensor? was poking out. The next day after work I pushed the sensor back in and put the rubber cover back on. It started fine and ran good but after a minute it started leaking oil on the pipes on the left side.
    Could this be just a gasket fix or could the head be warped? and is that a sensor that popped out? Yes I was stupid to let it idle that long.
    The plastic cover on the outside of face of the valve cover? shaped a bit like a comma? That covers the ignition coil (aka "stick coil") that is on top of the spark plug.

    If it got hot enough to pop out the stick coil, it was probably hot enough to damage/destroy the small cup-shaped rubber gasket at the center of the spark plug tunnel that seals the tunnel from the valve cover. Oil would then leak from this central point down from the valve cover/cylinder head area. Could also be damage to the plastic valve cover seal around the perimeter of the valve cover.

    I would suggest you (or someone with the appropriate technical ability if you are not comfortable with it) remove the valve cover and inspect the inner and outer seals. And likewise for the right valve cover. And change the thoroughly roasted oil.
    Mark Neblett
    Fairfax, VA
    #32806

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bartlesville, OK
    Posts
    5
    I will have it checked out. Thank you for the reply.

  4. #4
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI
    Posts
    3,843

    Thumbs up

    Also, at idle, your engine is not charging the battery at all. Requires much higher RPM's to cause the generator ( mistakenly referred to as an 'alternator,' though I don't think we use alternating current in a 12v DC system!) to juice up the battery.

    Use an appropriate charger instead next time, and good luck getting several components replaced to end the oil leakage.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle & High Performance Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  5. #5
    #13338 PGlaves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    "Big Bend" TX
    Posts
    10,094
    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    Also, at idle, your engine is not charging the battery at all. Requires much higher RPM's to cause the generator ( mistakenly referred to as an 'alternator,' though I don't think we use alternating current in a 12v DC system!) to juice up the battery.

    Use an appropriate charger instead next time, and good luck getting several components replaced to end the oil leakage.
    Actually, it is a generator generically but an alternator specifically that generates three-phase alternating current which is rectified into 12v direct current in the built-in diode based rectifier. As for the original post - at least the bike, then the garage, then the house didn't catch fire this time.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/

  6. #6
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI
    Posts
    3,843
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Actually, it is a generator generically but an alternator specifically that generates three-phase alternating current which is rectified into 12v direct current in the built-in diode based rectifier. As for the original post - at least the bike, then the garage, then the house didn't catch fire this time.
    OK - what he said.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle & High Performance Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  7. #7
    BMW is Boxer-Boxer is BMW GregoryT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pacific North West
    Posts
    120

    Alternator.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    OK - what he said.
    He said the 2011 BMW R1200RT has an alternator - AKA as a generator, that alternates current (three phace) and build in diodes that change it to a direct current.
    G.T.
    BMW MOA # 71371
    Everett, WA

    2013 R1200RT

  8. #8
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI
    Posts
    3,843

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryT View Post
    He said the 2011 BMW R1200RT has an alternator - AKA as a generator, that alternates current (three phace) and build in diodes that change it to a direct current.
    Greg - pardon my ignorance, but out of curiousity, why does the BMW take 12 volts, mess with it a bit, and then change it back to a direct current?

    I'm sure the engineers had a good reason - I just wonder what it is.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle & High Performance Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  9. #9
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    south of Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,883
    Historically, alternators are more reliable and longer-lived than generators in most applications.

  10. #10
    neanderssance man sedanman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Pawling NY
    Posts
    793
    Its not just BMW doing this, it's how alternators work. The alternator actually produces closer to 26 volts a/c. If you saw this on an oscilloscope you would see a waveform that went positive to negative about 13volts from zero with the peaks and valleys being about 26 volts apart. There is a device called a rectifier that is basically a cluster of 4 diodes. The rectifier inverts the bottom of the wave so the waves overlap and the peaks are about 13 volts from zero. Polarity never changes. The output of the rectifier is not perfectly smooth and this can be seen on an oscilloscope and is called "ripple". Ripple can be a diognostic tool for charging problems. The battery serves as a capacitor to provide smooth, clean (no ripple) power to the vehicle. The voltage regulator controls how much power is sent to the field coil and that controls how much voltage comes out of the alternator. Generators used permanent magnets, altermators use electro-magnets.
    Paul
    Stop wrestling with your motorcycle, dance with it.
    2011 R1200RT Traded
    2014 R1200RT fully optioned

  11. #11
    FUKENGRUVEN SURVIVOR akbeemer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    THE BIG SKY
    Posts
    4,914
    Quote Originally Posted by sedanman View Post
    Its not just BMW doing this, it's how alternators work. The alternator actually produces closer to 26 volts a/c. If you saw this on an oscilloscope you would see a waveform that went positive to negative about 13volts from zero with the peaks and valleys being about 26 volts apart. There is a device called a rectifier that is basically a cluster of 4 diodes. The rectifier inverts the bottom of the wave so the waves overlap and the peaks are about 13 volts from zero. Polarity never changes. The output of the rectifier is not perfectly smooth and this can be seen on an oscilloscope and is called "ripple". Ripple can be a diognostic tool for charging problems. The battery serves as a capacitor to provide smooth, clean (no ripple) power to the vehicle. The voltage regulator controls how much power is sent to the field coil and that controls how much voltage comes out of the alternator. Generators used permanent magnets, altermators use electro-magnets.
    Thanks. I learned something, but how much I'll retain is very much in question. Before I read this I thought charging systems were a mixture of Voodoo, alchemistry and regular payments to Batteries Plus.
    Kevin Huddy
    Tm Pterodactyl MT Outpost

  12. #12
    BMW is Boxer-Boxer is BMW GregoryT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pacific North West
    Posts
    120

    Alternator vs. generator.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    Greg - pardon my ignorance, but out of curiousity, why does the BMW take 12 volts, mess with it a bit, and then change it back to a direct current?

    I'm sure the engineers had a good reason - I just wonder what it is.
    Virtually all modern motorcycles, cars, trucks, and buses use alternators to generate electricity,
    they are physically smaller, reliable, more powerful, and charge at idle speed.

    Alternators are very simple and easy to work with.
    Compare to a charging system in modern Hybrid cars or buses where EV Drive (or similar) systems are continuously working as charging generators, and drive motors depending on demand - all at a much higher voltage rate as well.
    G.T.
    BMW MOA # 71371
    Everett, WA

    2013 R1200RT

  13. #13
    roamingbeemer roamingbeemer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by sedanman View Post
    Its not just BMW doing this, it's how alternators work. The alternator actually produces closer to 26 volts a/c. If you saw this on an oscilloscope you would see a waveform that went positive to negative about 13volts from zero with the peaks and valleys being about 26 volts apart. There is a device called a rectifier that is basically a cluster of 4 diodes. The rectifier inverts the bottom of the wave so the waves overlap and the peaks are about 13 volts from zero. Polarity never changes. The output of the rectifier is not perfectly smooth and this can be seen on an oscilloscope and is called "ripple". Ripple can be a diognostic tool for charging problems. The battery serves as a capacitor to provide smooth, clean (no ripple) power to the vehicle. The voltage regulator controls how much power is sent to the field coil and that controls how much voltage comes out of the alternator. Generators used permanent magnets, altermators use electro-magnets.
    Excellent explanation. The last sentence in quote is my normal explanation and that the "Alternator" does not require as high of an RPM to charge. Especially applicable in older aircraft engines and probably older motorcycle engines. You can hand prop the older engines with permanent magnets and the Generator will charge the dead battery.

    An alternator needs the field coil excited. Also, both put out raw AC current but is then rectified (Diodes or older systems used a mechancial regulator and points) and transformed to the correct voltage. If needed, a transformer changes voltage using AC that induces a different voltage in a separate coil with different number of windings to produce the correct output voltage.

    Large aircraft will use the AC at higher voltages for some applications and only rectify what is needed thru Transformer Rectifiers. A 28 volt DC system in a large aircraft would require very large wires to carry the required power needed for all the systems.

    Ignition magnetos (Motorcycles and Aircraft) use permanent magnets and use the same principle as a permanent magnet Generator except no need to regulate the output for sensitive electronics.

    I think I got that correct but there are bigger experts here than me. I do a lot of systems teaching and I really try to get my students to understand the how and why of the systems they will be working with.
    Seek Fun. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain--and most fools do" BF
    2009 K1300GT, S1000RR sold, F650 sold
    2011 R1200GSA
    2014 Kawasaki DTracker 250 (Chiang Mai Thailand)

  14. #14
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI
    Posts
    3,843

    Smile

    Wow!

    Incredible expertise at one's fingertips here.

    All credible explanations, for sure, but that whole "voodoo, alchemistry and regular payment plan" appeals to my simpler sense of wonder.
    Kevin Greenwald - MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    Motorcycle & High Performance Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Denver, North Carolina
    Posts
    30
    Most modern motorcycles use an alternator instead of a generator. Generally the voltage regulator has a rectifier circuit that converts AC to DC. To test the system in the line side of the voltage regulator, you need an AC multimeter as well as the AC electrical specs for the alternator.

    I have not checked this out on my 2015 R1200R, but its alternator is comparable in voltage capacity to the alternator on my 2009 Harley Davidson Dyna Super Glide. The Dyna is able to charge the battery at idle (approximately 900 rpm's), even with the auxiliary lights lights on. In the winter, with electrically heated gear on a low setting, it still provides enough charge to keep the battery from discharging at idle.

    This is definitely comparing apples and oranges. I am going to be doing some electrical work on the R1200R next week. I'll test it at idle and see how well the alternator performs.

    Pete

    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    Also, at idle, your engine is not charging the battery at all. Requires much higher RPM's to cause the generator ( mistakenly referred to as an 'alternator,' though I don't think we use alternating current in a 12v DC system!) to juice up the battery.

    Use an appropriate charger instead next time, and good luck getting several components replaced to end the oil leakage.
    Pete

    2015 R1200R

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •