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The Tutu Rule

Paage Limits?

Why put a limit on it? Be brief, to the point, but let it take up as much room as is necessary.

Dave H
San Antonio, Tx
 
If you wouldn't say it to someones face, while sober, don't say it here.

There are no drunken assholes. They were assholes before they got drunk. If they say it they probably mean it. Might just be a window into what they are really about. One of my rules that seems to work somewhere in the 100% range.
 
Last edited:
Status of Policy Draft to date

OK, below is a draft of text that's been developed in the effort to form Policy.


  • A couple of sections are still in development.
  • We haven't had the chance to incorporate the comments made in this thread yet. That will come next.
  • The text refers to our Terms of Service (ToS) which are published on the main web site. Some of this text is gonna require work, too.

So, here goes... and don't look for any replies from me this weekend... I am going camping! :burnout

==============================
User conduct
The BMW MOA message boards are a place for our community to come together. Here we share roads and rides, talk about upcoming events, give advice on tech issues, even just shoot the breeze on topics not even related to motorcycles. What we don’t do is attack each other or act in a way that would bring discredit to us as individuals or the organization as a whole. We cannot encourage enough the use of simple common sense – if you wouldn’t say it over breakfast with newly met friends at a neat old diner on some amazingly off the beaten track scenic road, then don’t say it here.

Hot buttons
OK, the above is vague. We know that. We intended that, we’d rather folks rely on common sense than look to a long list of specific rules. Because many of us have bosses, spouses, even kids looking over our shoulders as we read the boards, think of them as your audience. That said, it never hurts to make a few things quite plain.

1. No flaming. Just don’t do it. Clever quips and snappy retorts are part of any conversation, we mean the ill-intended, vicious personal attack.

2. No vulgar or Inflammatory Language. You know what we mean – if it is something you wouldn’t want your boss looking over your shoulder to see, don’t write it.

Code of conduct
The code of conduct began as a long list of bad behaviors, since abandoned for a single, 2-word line: Play nice. It is simple and easy to remember.

Banned topics or topics that lead to flame wars?
As winter sets in and snow gathers round our trusty steeds conversations naturally start to wander. As we look out the window and see snow and sleet instead of sun the frustrations of not riding often set in. Over the years (and many winters) we’ve pretty much been able to identify some things that inevitably start flame wars, breed ill will, and just in general make people act in ways they’d never have believed themselves capable (and yes, that is meant in the bad way.) Below are a few of these topics – if you feel compelled to debate them, there are plenty of places to do it on the Internet. In other words, don’t do it here.

1. Religion and abortion
2. Politics
3. Handguns

Moderators - Still in draft stage
  1. Qualifications
  2. Selection / nomination process
  3. Code of conduct
  4. Communication with members, staff and C&M MOA BOD members

Professional Staff - Still in draft stage
  1. Recommendations for conduct
  2. Policy for direct PM to members on hot threads.

Moderation, enforcement and management of threads

Cause for editing a post
We don’t edit posts. If it is bad enough to violate this ToS we’ll just delete it.

Cause for deleting a post
Posts that violate the ToS will be deleted. The moderators have a lot of leeway – if in their judgment it is incidental or by mistake they may or may not notify the poster to edit his own post. That said, there are no guarantees and if, in the best judgment of a Moderator, the post violates the ToS he can delete it at will.

Cause for editing a poll
Again – we don’t edit.


Cause for deleting a poll
Polls that violate the ToS will be deleted. The moderators have a lot of leeway – if in their judgment it is incidental or by mistake they may or may not notify the poster to edit his own poll. That said, there are no guarantees and if, in the best judgment of a Moderator, the poll violates the ToS he can delete it at will.

Suspension of posting privileges.
The BMW MOA is a large and diverse family. We have Members from all over the world, from all age groups, from all walks of life. Each brings a unique and valuable perspective. Because of this we don’t take suspending posting privileges lightly. We also take maintaining a friendly and fraternal atmosphere, and if a user threatens that with violations of the ToS, he can (and most likely will) have his posting privileges suspended. Generally (there is that common sense thing again)…

1. A user will be warned for violating the ToS.

2. The next step, for someone who cannot heed a warning, is a 1-week suspension of posting privileges.

3. Should that week not suffice and ToS violations continue, the suspension will extend to 30 days.

4. Should that not suffice and ToS violations continue, the user’s posting privileges will be suspended until such a time as the BMW MOA Board of Directors, acting on a petition by the suspended user for the probationary return of posting privileges, approves of the probationary lifting of the suspension.
As always, an user who believes action is either not sufficient or is too harsh should contact the BMW MOA Executive Director Ray Zimmerman at rayz@bmwmoa.org (it will help to have a complete explanation of your thoughts with links to specific threads and posts.)

=========================================
 
transparency when moderators take action, if a post is deleted say why. a simple "deleted for x reason by moderator z"
Secret police actions lead to trouble. same goes for banning. Also no secret warnings, let the person know....

I like the specific time period for banning, none of this make up with the moderator who banned you stuff.

"As always, an user who believes action is either not sufficient or is too harsh should contact the BMW MOA Executive Director Ray Zimmerman at rayz@bmwmoa.org (it will help to have a complete explanation of your thoughts with links to specific threads and posts.)"
problem with that is when you are banned you can't get to those links.

bannings should be read only no posting,
not no access no reading-no posting
 
I would really love to be the Moderator for all things related to Lunchmeat

The moderators aren't anonymous. To be anonymous, their identity would need to be hidden.

At the bottom of any forum home page is a list of moderators for that forum.

You can also click on the "forum leaders" link at the bottom of the main forum home page (not very obvious, I know). This page lists moderators at the top, administrators , and supermoderators. A moderator is just that, someone who is assigned to moderate a specific forum or forums. A supermoderator is a moderator with a little more power on the backend. An administrator is someone that can see some of the backend - some are in this group, like me, to be able to help people with login issues, maintenance, etc. A few are there so that they can take part in conversations in how we handle login issues, moderation policy, etc. Some of these reflect when this forum was founded and was built by board members and a few key volunteers.

What that page will tell you:
---------
BradfordBenn - moderator/supermoderator: Gear, How do I....., Rally Forum, Ride Reports, Web Tea

BubbaZanetti - moderator: Campfire, Chartered Clubs & Local Events, G & F Bikes, Oilheads, Rally Forum

DATA - moderator: K-bikes

k12koop - moderator/administrator: Chartered Clubs & Local Events, Presidential Palace

phactory - moderator: Vintage

robnye - moderator/administrator: Election 200

username - moderator: Airheads, Campfire, How do I....., Rally Chairs

Visian - moderator/administrator (aka Forum Liason): Ambassadors, Clubhouse, Doghouse, Moderator Forum, Online Central


ghanlin - administrator. He's the office IT guy.
Greg Feeler - administrator
KBasa - administrator
knary - administrator and all around swell guy
moaoffice - administrator user for the MOA office
MrsKbasa - administrator
Ted - administrator and IBMWR vet
vincewinkel - administrator and media yoda
 
I thought Miss Lilly liked Harleys, sometimes.

sometimes..
when they aren't too loud, or the rider is safe looking and they must be painted pretty

she is still lamenting about how we need big blue back
 
I do not like the idea of deleting posts. If you have time to delete the post there is time to redact the unacceptable portion with an explanation of why. We learn nothing from deleting a post.

sometimes..
when they aren't too loud, or the rider is safe looking and they must be painted pretty

she is still lamenting about how we need big blue back

My youngest daughter still has not forgiven me for selling my R100R and that was back in 1989.
 
I do not like the idea of deleting posts. If you have time to delete the post there is time to redact the unacceptable portion with an explanation of why. We learn nothing from deleting a post.

john - no one likes post deletion. the problem with editing is that one takes ownership of what's left, which is somewhere we don't want to be. (i'm not a lawyer but have received some good advice about this from one.)

the goal here is to get to the point that the norm is so clear that no posts will need to be deleted. that isn't the case right now, but it's what this process is about.

ian
 
I fully understand. During the discussion phase I tilt at windmills with vigor. I don't start wars.
 
john - no one likes post deletion. the problem with editing is that one takes ownership of what's left, which is somewhere we don't want to be. (i'm not a lawyer but have received some good advice about this from one.)

the goal here is to get to the point that the norm is so clear that no posts will need to be deleted. that isn't the case right now, but it's what this process is about.

ian

in a perfect world no one would need to be deleted
but.........

leave a trail
transparancy
ISO documentation
black belt 8 sigma yoda stuff

if as a moderator you decide to act you should be able to say why.

plus don't take MOA business elsewhere but here and e-mail, other forums don't care...
 
john - no one likes post deletion. the problem with editing is that one takes ownership of what's left, which is somewhere we don't want to be. (i'm not a lawyer but have received some good advice about this from one.)

the goal here is to get to the point that the norm is so clear that no posts will need to be deleted. that isn't the case right now, but it's what this process is about.

ian

A follow up question for clarification. The deletion we are talking about is...

Deletion of an offensive post, not an entire thread.

I do not like deletions; however, I can understand the deletion of an offensive post in terms of you legal concerns.

Threads should be locked and sent to the dog house with an explination, if they have reached the extreme point.
 
A follow up question for clarification. The deletion we are talking about is...

Deletion of an offensive post, not an entire thread.

I do not like deletions; however, I can understand the deletion of an offensive post in terms of you legal concerns.

Threads should be locked and sent to the dog house with an explination, if they have reached the extreme point.

yep
 
A follow up question for clarification. The deletion we are talking about is...

Deletion of an offensive post, not an entire thread.

I do not like deletions; however, I can understand the deletion of an offensive post in terms of you legal concerns.

Threads should be locked and sent to the dog house with an explination, if they have reached the extreme point.

what i was referring to is *editing* a post, which you had called redacting. this is something moderators will stay away from.

i agree with you & mark about doghousing... especially in cases where a post isn't pron, a personal attack or other serious violation of posting norms.

i hate deletions, too... and all the moderators take it very seriously.

ian
 
Purposeful tilting at windmills

I have a question regarding the banned topics or topics that lead to flames. How are these topics viewed when they directly relate to motorcycling? I ask for two reasons.

When I put together the Morning Reads I avoid these topics as much as possible. There are things I do or could post that have a political nature. For example a recent post included the newsletter from the MRF. The letter dealt in main with concerns for the road adhesion v. visibility of road markers, the safety of proposed road barriers for motorcyclist and was informational in nature. I fully expect they will urge riders to contact representatives in the future. Under the proposed guidelines where is the line between information and politics. I am looking for discussion and guidance more than a ÔÇÿbright lineÔÇÖ demarking the foul line.

I am not surprised that guns made it to the proposed banned line. However; I do remember a series of threads dealing with questions for adventure touring into wilderness areas. The topic of carrying weapons for defense came up and was handled well for approximately 100 posts between the threads before at the request of the persons starting the thread urged it be sent to the dog house and the moderator properly concurred. Until it was sent there a good deal of good information and perspectives were aired.

With that as background: is there a way to bring up topics directly related to motorcycling that normally would be on a banned list if they did not have a direct relationship to motorcycling? Are these areas so volatile, even with a legitimate motorcycling connection, which the TOS/Rules can not deal with?
 
.... Under the proposed guidelines where is the line between information and politics. I am looking for discussion and guidance more than a ÔÇÿbright lineÔÇÖ demarking the foul line.

I am not surprised that guns made it to the proposed banned line. However; I do remember a series of threads dealing with questions for adventure touring into wilderness areas. The topic of carrying weapons for defense came up and was handled well for approximately 100 posts between the threads before at the request of the persons starting the thread urged it be sent to the dog house and the moderator properly concurred. Until it was sent there a good deal of good information and perspectives were aired.

With that as background: is there a way to bring up topics directly related to motorcycling that normally would be on a banned list if they did not have a direct relationship to motorcycling? Are these areas so volatile, even with a legitimate motorcycling connection, which the TOS/Rules can not deal with?

well, i think your guns/adventure thread example pretty much sums up the approach. since there is definitely a gray area instead of a line when it comes to subject matter, the method that's worked so far is to be fairly liberal in interpretation and only rein things in when they get virulent or personal, or both.

or... (and without reading the thread) it sounds like a discussion that was useful to adventure riders, even though involves a "banned" topic only got shut down because it went awry and the thread starter made a request.

do you feel basically comfortable with that?

ian

ps => guns in tankbags is verbotten in IBMWR and relegated to JoMomma at ADV. for some odd reason i think we can trust our membership to talk responsibly.
 
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