R1200RT Rear Drive Failure

My almost new R12RT is laid up at the dealer with a failed rear drive assembly. It's not clear to me exactly what failed because I have never seen the diagram of the rear assembly. The bike had 3500 miles on the clock and was new in June. Had to cancel my long planned September vacation.

Oddly enough BMW can't supply replacement parts to my dealer nor can they provide a date by which the parts will be available. The dealer has been great but there does not appear to be a solution in the near future.

I had a heck of a time finding a phone number to reach customer service at BMW NA and when I did the person would not tell me their full name or give me a direct number for reaching them. He did say he'd call me back in 48 hours with an update. My dealer is closed on Monday's so he can't touch base with them until tomorrow.

Is this a common experience? This is my seventh Beemer and my first after taking a break when my local dealer closed down. I switched to Harley's for nearly seven years, but missed having a Beemer. This is the first time I've had a serious failure with a BMW during warranty since 1987 (and then the dealer harvested the needed part from a bike on the floor to get me riding again).

There was little or no warning that the rear drive was failing and there was enough lateral play in the rear wheel by the time I found the problem that the wheel probably would have come off at some point had I continued riding.

Looking back two things should have warranted further investigation. I smelled a burning smell that I thought was the clutch a few times after long rides. On my last long ride before discovering the problem I felt the rear end slipping out on a few tight corners (racked it up to loose surface material). There was probably a third to half an inch play in the wheel by the time I discovered the problem.

I was washing the bike and a steady stream of black came out in the rinse water from the area of the rear axle. I thought it was oil but as it turns out the seal was intact. It was the powdered aluminum from some portion of the hub assembly that had been ground down over time (according to the shop). There was a lot of material and it took several minues for the water to run clear again.

Keep an eye on your wheel and test the lateral play! This sort of failure has the potential to ruin your whole day.

-Gary
Portland, OR

over at advrider. i realize two failures can hardly be called a major issue, yet even 2 people reporting issues, out of what might be an active internet community of a few hundred, should signal something might not be right

This was not supposed to happen with the new rear ends in the R1200 bikes. I have a friend with a R1200GS that had a rear end failure. One has to wonder about the new design and permanent lubrication.

MrFrank said:

This was not supposed to happen with the new rear ends in the R1200 bikes. I have a friend with a R1200GS that had a rear end failure. One has to wonder about the new design and permanent lubrication.

Click to expand...

It's still not clear whether this is the oft sited rear end failure or another variant peculiar to this situation. AFAIK the rear gears did not fail nor did the oil seal fail. What seems to have failed is the hub assembly that holds the wheel onto the rear drive assembly. But again, I have no picture to refer to so I am at loss to explain it better.

-Gary

I have heard about plenty of those FD's failing and last friday when my 1150 GS was in for it's annual, I saw a 1200 GS with a busted FD. The wrench there told me there are no servicable parts?!?! and a new one was on order. Well, after all the hoopla about how 'bad' the 1150's are, I'll stick with mine for now. I guess that all that's new isn't always an improvement after all.

BubbaZanetti said:

over at advrider. i realize two failures can hardly be called a major issue, yet even 2 people reporting issues, out of what might be an active internet community of a few hundred, should signal something might not be right

Click to expand...

I did note a burning smell when I stopped after long-ish rides. For some reason I thought it smelled like clutch material and figured it was my fault. In retrospect it might have been the rear hub. All that wear must have generated some heat.

By the time I discovered the problem the rear wheel would not turn easily by hand (with bike on centerstand). Disturbing. Nothing with flames, though!

This is very concerning. Please keep us posted with the final diagnosis of the problem and the manner in which BMW handles it. There should be some engineers in the fatherland sweating marbles.

Easy
Big Empty, Texas
We ought not be over anxious to encourage innovation, in case of doubtful improvement, for an old system must ever have two advantages over a new one; it is established and it is understood.
C. C. Colton

Rear end failure

Thank you for the heads up information. I will keep a eye on the problem area. At this point I have 8000 miles on my 05 RT and problem free.
CW
Chicago

A word or two about failures.

The electronics industry created a failure model that was ultimately dubbed the "bathtub curve" because it looks sorta like an old clawfoot bathtub (minus the feet). Time marches along the horizontal axis of this chart, and failure rates are on the vertical axis. Early-life failures (to the left-hand side) are high due to "infant mortality" where something is just plain wrong right out of the box. Then failure rates drop to a low level for the "normal" life of the product (whatever that is) and failure rates shoot upward again at end-of-normal life due to "wear-out".

What we got here at 3500 miles is infant mortality. Those of you with, oh, say 10,000+ miles shouldn't be concerned... with this particular failure mode that is.

121247 said:

Thank you for the heads up information. I will keep a eye on the problem area. At this point I have 8000 miles on my 05 RT and problem free.
CW
Chicago

Click to expand...

BMW is recommending a fluid change starting with the '07s at the 600 mile mark. And installing a new magnetic drain plug (with a new o ring) instead of the non magnetic one there now. The drives come with Castrol SAF-XO 75W90 synth extended drain gear oil. BMW supplies a synth 75W90 long drain gear oil made by Spectrol. I notice the factory stuff is black and full of molybdenum disulfide or the moly is added to it. Don't know, but it is black and will stain your fingers to the point of difficulty in cleaning them. The Spectrol is clearish and red. Oak has always recommended dino and a moly additive. I put the new magnetic plug in mine and went a couple dozen miles and found almost nothing on the magnet. Maybe some of the drives needed more cleaning after manufacturing.
If you drain your drive, it is recommended that you replace the nut you remove when tipping the drive 90 degrees to drain it. It's a lock nut type nut. When you fill it (with a measured amount of fluid) thru the ABS sensor hole (upright in place now) use a new o ring on that when replaced.
I checked with the BMW car side for the Castrol SAF-XO and they can get it but only in a big drum. Hmmm...a lifetime supply...and here I thought that the .22L in my drive was a lifetime supply.

How eerily remarkable. After all the final drive news, I decided to change my lubricant prior to a trip next week. 2006 R1200RT, 3600 miles. Look what I found besides oil:

This is the sheared-off end of a T40 Torx bit.

Now THAT is an unmitigated quality problem. Has BMW been having labor problems?

That's a personnel problem. The schmuck on the assembly line that is driving T40 fasteners, undoubtedly with a pneumatic device, snapped off the driver bit. He/she might have, in all honesty, not known exactly where the broken piece ended up. The problem started the instant he/she decided the missing piece of the old bit was no big deal. Shoulda told somebody, stopped the line, found the piece.

Our bikes are still assembled by human beings. Was he/she just having a bad day? Fight with spouse? Money troubles? Hangover? Bored silly?

No doubt every make of motorcycle has its share of mechanical problems, quality control, etc. However, I am becoming more than just a little concerned about what I have been reading lately regarding failures of BMW motorcycles. And, it is not just final drives. I hear about clutches, splines, brakes, etc. And it costs plenty to have them fixed if out of warranty. Even if you do it yourself, the cost of parts is very high.

I would like to get another bike. After looking around I have determined that for my riding style, ergonomic requirements, etc. something like an RT is what I need. Not many other makes have what I want so I am hoping BMW can figure out what is going on here.

Yes, there are BMWs out there with high miles on them that have not had any major failures. But that is little consolation if it happens to you. Are the failure rates really that high, or are they in the normal range?

I have owned other makes but I always came back to BMW. They were not perfect but they did everything well enough and with enough reliability. Now, I have started looking elsewhere. I am losing my confidence in BMW to produce a motorcycle that can be bought at a reasonable price and still provide the expected reliability.

MrFrank said:

This was not supposed to happen with the new rear ends in the R1200 bikes. I have a friend with a R1200GS that had a rear end failure. One has to wonder about the new design and permanent lubrication.

Click to expand...

One has to wonder about the Paralever - single sided swingarm design in the first place...period! I wonder why the other manufacturers haven't gone that route, and some of their bikes even produce far more power than a BMW.

cjack said:

I notice the factory stuff is black and full of molybdenum disulfide or the moly is added to it. Don't know, but it is black and will stain your fingers to the point of difficulty in cleaning them. The Spectrol is clearish and red. Oak has always recommended dino and a moly additive.

Click to expand...

I noticed this and posted my observations shortly after buying my 2003 oilhead. The rear drive lube drained from both my 2003 and 2004 R1150 GS Adventures came out pitch black. BMW has been adding a moly additive, no doubt. You're the first person to post the same findings...I was starting to wonder if I was the only one.

I've been using dino Bel Ray Hypoid 90 (red) and mixing in Dow Corning M Gear Gard since my 1000 km (600 mile) inspections.

GlobalRider said:

I noticed this and posted my observations shortly after buying my 2003 oilhead. The rear drive lube drained from both my 2003 and 2004 R1150 GS Adventures came out pitch black. BMW has been adding a moly additive, no doubt. You're the first person to post the same findings...I was starting to wonder if I was the only one.

I've been using dino Bel Ray Hypoid 90 (red) and mixing in Dow Corning M Gear Gard since my 1000 km (600 mile) inspections.

Click to expand...

I've seen it in new transmissions also...but not all of them.

R1200 Final Drive Failure - Status Report

First of all I have to complement BMW Motorcycles of Western Oregon (BMWOR) on the professional and courteous fashion in which they continue to handle this situation. After all I'm sure they find the situation frustrating albeit in a different way than I do.

Here's what happened since my original post:

I had a call from the dealer saying that they had recieved one part but were still waiting on the main part or parts for the repair. They promised to keep me informed as the situation changes and told me to call them whenever I want if I feel I'm not hearing enough from them.

A friend pointed me to the RealOEM.com site where I was able to look at the exploded diagrams of the rear end for the R12. This helped me visualize the relationship between the flange that the wheel bolts to and the final drive assembly. If the tech is right and the seal was intact then the failure was probably the splined interface of the flange and axle shaft. The shaft is steel and the flange is alloy. If the flange wore down for some reason it would have resulted in lateral play and ground oxidized aluminium alloy (perhaps the source of the black runoff; not moly as some have speculated). Maybe the only thing that kept me from having he wheel fall off was the retaining ring that holds the flange on the axle. Scary. Again this is not fact; this is speculation based on the little info I have.

I employed a little detective work to call BMWNA since their main number is hard to find. I had to use infospace.com to find a set of BMW numbers in New Jersey which I called until I got a person who pointed me at the main number. I was connected to a guy who identified himself as "Tony" (refused to tell me his last name or phone number) who was quite unconcerned about my experience and would not commit to do anything other than "look into it" and call me back in 48 hours. He refused to let me speak with a supervisor, tell me what BMW NA policy regarding parts availability is, or otherwise engage me in a supportive way. He did not give me a tracking number which leads me to believe they have no systematic way of handling customer issues. How very un-ISO of them. I was frankly shocked that this was BMW NA's support posture for motorcycle purchasers.

I called the Oregon DOJ and spoke to the consumer hotline person who gave me another number which they have used in the past to contact BMW NA (mostly for car things, but occasionally on a motorcycle issue). This got me an actual human being's phone mail. I got a call back during a meeting and got a message from, I think his name is "Marek", at BMW. I returned his call and he was a whole different person than "Tony". Marek was concerned about the problem, he has already investigated the issue, and had spoken with Tony. He promissed to find out what the parts situation was, speak with the dealer, and call me back the next day.

Marek has called me back twice since then with updates. First he thought the part was already on it's way to the dealer from in country distrubution. Today he says he was wrong. The part has shipped from Germany and is in transit. He believes it will arrive at the dealer mid-week (how un-FedEx of them) and he said he would call me on Wednesday with an update.

Seperately I filed a request for investigation with the NHTSA. They have a webform that you can fill out for possible safety issues. I see no reason not to have them look into this. I could have been killed and I'd hate to have that happen to someone else because I did nothing. If there is no underlying problem and this is a freak one-off then no harm done. If not it needs to be addressed in a serious fashion.

There is some chance I'll have the bike back end of next week. I am hoping the probablility is .5. I got the feeling BMW are going to offer to compensate me in some fashion for the downtime and the initially poor way my problem was handled. My sincerest wish is that they'll agree to tell me exactly what failed and how (if not why) for my own peace of mind. We'll see.

-Gary

PS - I hope there were no torx bits in my final drive.... Is that worse than finding a finger in your chilli at Wendy's (OK, that was a hoax, but you get the point)??

PPS - Random thought: Someone should pull the final drive from their hex head and send it off to a vendor in China for replication. That way we can stock our own spares at a low cost and (probably) equivalent quality. That first piece costs a bloody fortune though! I don't know if there is any protected IP in that final drive. Might be interesting to find out!

All of this makes me wonder if I should wait a bit longer and take a close look at the F800 when it gets here. I used to have my doubts about belt drive but since my Harley-riding friends are not reporting any problems, and I am not hearing of any problems, I might reconsider a bike with belt drive.

In over 20 years on airheads, the only drive problem I ever had was an oil leak on one bike. Has the new drive system gotten too complex to be reliable?

fracture said:

All of this makes me wonder if I should wait a bit longer and take a close look at the F800 when it gets here. I used to have my doubts about belt drive but since my Harley-riding friends are not reporting any problems, and I am not hearing of any problems, I might reconsider a bike with belt drive.

In over 20 years on airheads, the only drive problem I ever had was an oil leak on one bike. Has the new drive system gotten too complex to be reliable?

Click to expand...

Years ago we never heard of the failures like we do now. Internet and all.
I was kind of struck by the thousands of bikes at the National Rally that went thousands of miles...and home again. Don't tell me about the 12 or so that broke. Thanks. Part timing at a dealer or reading the forum makes you think they are all broken and they aren't.